Lowered Expectations

Bouquets have been pouring into 49er HQ this week, with encouraging sentiments such as “GET AN OFFENSE, YOU STINKING BUMS!”

OC Greg Roman seems to be getting the most bouquets, followed closely by QB Colin Kaepernick and the group politely called Wide Receivers, who are neither wide nor do they receive much. There were also many references to fellows not fondly remembered in these parts: Mike Nolan, Jim Hostler, Mike Singletary, and Jimmy Raye. Being associated with these guys is the NFL equivalent of being a registered sex offender.

But these old names conjured up a technique frequently employed by desperate fans in those long ago dark days: the glass half full outlook. Now that the team can no longer entertain the hope of winning the NFC West, it can focus on the easier task of grabbing one of the Wild Card spots. This means focusing almost exclusively on the NFC North (Green Bay, Detroit, and Chicago) and keeping Arizona in our rear view mirror.

Of course, the glass half empty is that the road to the SB goes through either Seattle or New Orleans. In fact, we might have to beat both of them in their own houses in back to back weeks.

But that’s for January. For now, we need to make sure we get there. Unfortunately, the 49ers play at New Orleans this weekend, which is probably the worst place in the league to show up without an offense.

Or more specifically, without a passing game. The running game works great, it’s the best in the league. The passing game is dead last. The very definition of a cave man offense. Where did the passing game go? Did Roman get stupid during the offseason? It seemed to work last year. Or did it? It was only ranked 23rd in the league. But it was good enough to get us within five yards of winning the Super Bowl.

The answer to the missing offense is pretty simple. Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree. Crabtree has been out all year. Vernon exited last Sunday’s game in mid-second quarter. The Niners led 9-0 at that time. If Vernon stays in that game, the team wins it going away. Not even close. As the old gum throwing idiot from Chicago once said, “You gotta have the horses.”

As you can see, my 49er mug is now brimming with half-fulledness. Vernon will be back, probably this Sunday. Crabtree will be back in a couple of weeks. People will stop ranting about Kaepernick’s faults and resume raving about his abilities, as we roar down the stretch in full red and gold wonderfulness. It is better to have the horses in January, than a division title in December.

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69 comments on “Lowered Expectations
  1. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    For the season Kap has thrown 9 TD passes.
    7 of those 9 have been to Vernon Davis.
    Vernon Davis goes out with a concussion.
    VD walks off the field leaving his helmet after his bell is rung.
    Kaps psyche is shattered and he can’t sustain a drive even though it’s early and the Niners have built a 9 point lead.
    From that point on the Niner offense stalls and nets under 50 yards for the remainder of the game.

  2. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Bullirt- What is you are saying is correct. The problem is the coaching staff goes into a game with a plan, they get an injury or two and can’t properly adjust. We win that game going away if we just take the slant pattern that was being given to us.

    And for Skeebers, yes Roman did get stupid. He’s probably reading his press clippings of what a genius he is and thinking the run game will dominate. Therein lies the problem. The run game can’t always dominate. So how does he compensate, by throwing everything deep to loosen up the defense so he can run more. But everybody has seen that on film by now and defenses it. Spending some time, actually trying to develop a passing game using WRs to throw to is what we need now. Give our QB some better options for pre snap reads so he can get the ball out quicker. I think we all remember Walsh and now Reid, Manning, Brady and Brees using the passing game for ball control. The running game will be just fine with a little less attention.

  3. Grumpy GuyNo Gravatar says:

    Hey now, Berger, that’s crazy talk. We’re not here to fool anyone. We hit people in the mouth, lose our pants, and go three and out. [/singlebaugh]

  4. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    Everyone is offering their two cents including one of the original game managers.

  5. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Dilfer was just on 95.7 The Game explaining his comments.
    His analysis makes sense and I have to agree with most of his points especially saying that he Dilfer, wallowed in mediocrity for 14 years as a QB.

  6. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Grumpy- Exactly. Our game plans have the sillage of Jimmy Raye/Mike Singletary.

  7. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    ‘Win going away’ is in doubt even with VD in there, Skeebs. Granted, VD is now Kappy’s favorite target, and he did miss him, but as I have been saying, and Bergs as well, designing quicker pass plays would help get the ball out of Kappy’s hand faster, and lessen the constant pressure he faced. There is little to no adjusting routes, reads, or anything when things go south.

    Sorry if cogent facts befuddle you, Bullitt. It seems that whenever you read an article, your opinion changes as to the issues. Your 2.8 seconds vs 3 seconds pretty funny. That 0.2 an awful lot happens, right? In the real world, 3 seconds is not enough time to develop a robust passing game. QBs typically need 4-5 seconds to get a pass off. Especially mid-range to deep balls.

    ‘Kap’s psyche is shattered’? And you know this how?

  8. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    What cogent facts? So you think typically an Olineman can hold off Ahmad Brooks or Aldon Smith out for 5 seconds?
    Did you paint yourself into a corner again by disagreeing and saying this?
    “QBs typically need 4-5 seconds to get a pass off”

    4.5 seconds is typical hangtime on a punt so I don’t think you realize how long 4.5 seconds is.

    So let me call you out on this and please shut me up by providing
    documented proof from a respected source.
    We are dealing with reality here, not the world you live in.

  9. NJ49erNo Gravatar says:

    Seems pretty elementary to me guys.
    Good D-Co’s are taking away the easy read pre-snap and Kaep isn’t astute enough at this point to correct it.
    Some of that falls on the WRs to read coverage as well.

    Glad that we finally have Mario in there and, made the move to get Kyle out of that mix.
    Felt it was kinda odd to hear Kyle say he was getting open and not seeing the ball too.

    After seeing some replays of the ‘killer pick’ headed in Marios’ direction, I saw it was Kyle who dragged extra defenders into the area by obviously running the wrong route.

    We have time to sharpen the passing game before is all said and done.
    What matters now is to stay healthy, win enough to solidify a WCard slot and, maybe, hope for some help.

    Skeebs, I’m with you, go Detroit!
    For that matter, Go Dallas too.

  10. winderNo Gravatar says:

    reality is overrated. We let the stinkin Panthers beat us in our house.

  11. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    Ex Raiduh TE Todd Christiansen died today at the age of 57.
    He was battling a liver disease.

  12. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    NJ- You said:

    “Good D-Co’s are taking away the easy read pre-snap and Kaep isn’t astute enough at this point to correct it.”

    What pre snap reads? I don’t see any plays being called that call for pre snap reads. The closest I’ve seen are calling 2 plays and going with the first or killing it to the 2nd. If we had pre snap reads we would have capitalized on the slant pattern that was offered to us all game vs the Panthers. They flat out gave us that pattern and our coaches did pot advise the QB and receivers to look for it. When a fundamental part of the game like that is missed it is the coaching, not the QB. Especially a QB in his 16th start. We could throw any backup QB out there and get more production than we did Sunday. Do you really think our QB is that bad. If he is bench him. My choice is to fire Roman because he is the problem.

  13. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    The most memorable play in 49er history, The Catch took all of 7 seconds from start to finish.
    Still waiting for evidence from Chuck Incognito that NFL QBs have an average 4-5 seconds to find an open receiver.
    Imagine a db having to stay with Calvin Johnson for 5 seconds on every passing down?
    I have credible evidence where an entire NFL season’s pass plays were put to a stopwatch. I did not come up with the 2.8 second metric, some football wonks did.
    As usual Chuck has stuck his foot in his mouth and chooses the chikin little approach when called out by hiding out with a non response.

  14. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    The offense is a run and a pass called in the huddle. This goes back to the Nolan days. Which should be a read flag regardless. 99% of the time kill-kill-kill means Gore up the middle. No reading going on. I’ve yet to see a WR turn and look for a hot-read slant.

    Bullit once again you blow everything out of proportion to support your fallacious arguement. What you gleaned from whatever article you posted is that most sacks happen within 2.8 seconds, so that isn’t enough time. However, 3 seconds is plenty of time to scan the field for the 5 WRs in the pattern, cook breakfast, and do the dishes. That 0.2 is a huuuge difference? Not only is that stupid, it’s sofa king stupid.

  15. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Guys can go back and read what was posted. Now you are totally twisting and distorting the content quoteed. My suggestion is you should go back and read it also.
    My guess is this might be above your mental capabilities.
    Nice try deflecting your ridiculous and clueless statement that it takes NFL QBs an average of 5 seconds to find a receiver.
    I see you’re trying to worm your way out of that one.

  16. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    Kyle Williams claimed by Kansas City. 49ers east.

  17. Del Mar DennisNo Gravatar says:

    He never should have worn the Miami Dolphins cap and then scoffed at the fans for good measure. Karma is a bitch.

  18. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    Quinton Patton has returned to practice.

  19. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    I was expecting KC to claim Kyle Williams. He should do better in an offense designed for WRs to be used in WR spots. Heck, AJ Jenkins has even done better, he caught one pass!

  20. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    Weekly All 22 film breakdown and analysis.
    To be an effective QB you have to spot your open receivers which didn’t happen.

  21. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    You have made it very clear that you want Roman gone. I can respect that with some of your reasoning.
    I’d like to know the names of 2 or 3 guys you want to be the next Niner OC that you think will make a difference.
    Do you keep the QB coach Chryst?

  22. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Jay Gruden for one . . .

    How about Mike McCoy?

    Or Eric Mangini? Hyuk . . .

  23. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Only some of your reasoning, Bergs . . .

  24. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Bullit- I’d take just about anybody. The last OC we had that did not use the hot read was Jim Hostler. Roman is in that category. I think Roman digressed from last year. What it seems like, is he has been reading his press clippings and is starting to think he is God’s gift to the running game. Why have a passing game when the running game is better than anything ever invented. BTW, if it is Roman’s fault that means it is also Harbaugh’s fault. Harbaugh is the one making the big bucks, let him pick a new OC.

    I just watched an empty backfield play on Comcast. The LB came in clean. Every receiver had their back turned as they ran down field. Not one pattern to help give the QB the option to get the ball out quick. He had absolutely nobody to throw to to avoid the sack. That is what jimmy Raye used to do. It drove me nuts, and now I’m watching Roman do the same thing. You can love him and protect him all you want. I think he is THE problem with the offrense.

  25. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    I’ll approach this from a different direction regarding next year and Kap before they offer him the big contract.
    If Colin Kaepernick is stuck in neutral he doesn’t get the big money from the Niners until he gets over the hump and progresses to the nest level.
    The Niners should use one of their second round picks and draft a QB like Aaron Murray to compete with Kap.
    Kap needs the competition because he’s not progressing. Hate to admit it but the midget Seahag has progressed light years ahead of Kap. Kap started the year as the better QB and Wilson has left him in the dust because he makes sound quick decisions and takes what a defense gives him.

    Kap gave an interview this afternoon and they asked him what Dilfer said. Kap gave a stupid response saying how does Dilfer know what his progressions were. I can watch the All 22 tape and tell you what his progressions were just by watching his head. If the criticism is valid a simple no comment would do.
    Kap needs to learn that being the Niner starting QB will bring tough questions when you lose. Kap has Sergio Romo syndrome where it’s happy time when he does well and it’s get out of my face biotch when things don’t go as planned.

  26. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    I will also say, I didn’t get on the Dump Roman band wagon recently. I’ve been frustrated with him for a long time. I keep wondering at what point will he or Harbaugh have that epiphany that Billacheat, Coughlin, Fox and Dungy had to have. Three of those guys won the Super bowl after they figured out the importance of a passing attack and Fox is the favorite to win it this year. Unfortunately they all had to get fired from there first HC jobs to figure it out. Is that what it is going to take for Harbaugh to figure it out? I sure hope not.

  27. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    I like your idea of drafting a back up QB to compete. Kaep is struggling. I don’t think anybody is debating that. The debate is why. I think I have strongly presented my opinion on this matter. Look at the bright side, with Roman as OC and showcasing Kaep with his Mensa play calling, who would pay Kaep 20 mil per year. Roman is saving us a lot of money.

  28. Unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Of course you worry about Kappy’s interview skills, Bullitt. As usual you overstate everything, and overreact. Go ahead. bring up the hat.

    He’s young and has an underwhelming supporting cast. Again, I ‘m more concerned with the coaching Kappy’s getting, and the plays we are running. You want to get back into the Who screwed over Alex Smith or was it has fault deal?

  29. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    I will tell you going forward when you watch a passing play
    you will be reminded that you stated that the QB has FIVE SECONDS to throw the ball ON AVERAGE.
    Hope that doesn’t ruin the game for you because that statement was idiotic and confirms how clueless you are.

  30. Unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Let’s hear it for the sofa king. . .

    I just washed my car in 0.2 seconds!

    Warm up the popcorn, Grump . . .

  31. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Kaepernick just turned 26.
    I realize in your life you used the I’m young excuse until you turned 40.
    This cut him some slack because he’s YOUNG is a crutch.
    As the QB of the 49ers and the face of the franchise it’s time to grow up and take personal responsibility when you have a bad game.
    Being 26 is middle aged in terms of NFL life.
    Making excuses just hinders Kap’s growth.
    Just look how it’s worked out for you.

  32. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    Thought I’d share this fascinating article about the nuances of Quarterbacking. The article has input from Bill Walsh, Harbaugh (on progressions) and Sid Gilman. It’s technical but can explain a QB’s growing pains.

    Example: “The next step is not only making the right read but making it at the right time. Receivers in the NFL are open for only the briefest of moments, and “too often,” according to former 49ers head coach Bill Walsh, “either the quarterback is standing there waiting for the receiver, or the receiver has broken before the quarterback can throw the ball.” Being too early or too late is usually no different from being wrong.”

  33. robNo Gravatar says:

    i agree with SKEEBS 100 percent !

  34. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Bullit- Great stuff. You even got to see the Texas route! This is all elementary stuff for QBs, in depth for fans. Sometimes teams use their resources to cover all the reads, which can more easily be done when there are only two in the route. Or when slower players are used, like 270lb slot receivers. At this time hot reads become a great equalizer. We do not utilize hot reads. If we do it is rare.

    In fact, Harbough seems to like to use a little different tactic that has been working. It works especially well when the run game is working well, he likes the element of surprise. Genius when it works, looks terrible when it doesn’t. But teams are ready for it these days, especially when they know he has to pass.

    Sometimes he even out thinks himself, like in last year’s Rams game when he just had to run the 3 times and kick a FG to win the game. Instead he threw a pass to Walker who dropped the ball, which stopped the clock. He also called a QB sweep and Kaep ran out of bounds, again stopping the clock. He ends up kicking a FG anyway. But because of the clock stopping plays the Rams had almost 2 minutes left and a time out instead of about 45 seconds and no time outs. Rams go down and kick a game tying FG on the last play of the game.

    What they need to do is use the basic fundamentals from the article you provided, which they already do, but simplify the play calling. Call one play and get to the LOS quickly. It makes the defense declare their initial intention. If the QB sees what he likes, the play or the hot read, snap the ball quickly and run the play. If the match up is bad the QB has time to audible. This calling two plays in the huddle is just two cumbersome and time consuming. And when the QB doesn’t see what he likes, he yells kill. Carolina changed their defense almost every time Kaep yelled kill. So what was the advantage? None. Roman thinks he is out smarting everybody but the only one he is out smarting is his own team making the QB progression harder than it needs to be, especially for a QB with only 16 starts who is still figuring some of this stuff out anyway. It is simply bad play calling.

  35. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    Rob, the check is in the mail.

  36. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    This sounds simplistic but the way to defeat what defenses are doing to the Niners is to call just one play, get up to the line and go on your snap count sequence doing the kill, kill audible triggering the defensive shift and then going with the play called in the huddle.
    Also the Niners would blow the defense off the line if they went on a first sound snap count as the defense is anticipating
    a long count.
    Right now the Niners are way too predictable and need to change things up.

  37. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    To make room for Kyle Williams the Chefs have released Chad Hall.
    Small world?

  38. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Bullit- I thought that’s what Mangini was here for, to make us less predictable?

  39. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    I was thinking the same thing this morning. It’s an experiment and Jed York might tell Baalke to pull the plug because it doesn’t seem to be working.
    Mangini deserves some heat because he’s not earning his paycheck.

  40. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    I think you misspoke when you said you’d take any alternative
    as a new OC to Roman.
    You’d take Cam Cameron or Schottenheimer?
    Lane Kiffen? Bobby Petrino? Is Rich Kotite still alive?
    There are worse alternatives to Roman out there (if you look really hard).

  41. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Bullitt, Mangina is the least of the problems of this team. If Mangina gets heat, then Roman/Harbaugh get all that much more because THEY are the braintrust of the offense. Not the consultant guy. Also, isn’t is funny how I said yesterday and 2 days ago how slow and methodical this offense is? And how they should speed things up by calling one play? Your welcome.

    Berger is frustrated, Bullit. Stop being so literal.

  42. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Suggest you read what was posted before your comments.
    You basically parroted what others posted and now you want to claim credit for it? Looking a for a small victory after your asinine a QB has on average 5 seconds to spot an open receiver comment? If it makes you feel better pat yourself on the back.
    Before the season Chuck, you also stated emphatically that Fangio’s defense would go down the toilet based on his past coaching history.
    How’s that working out for you so far?

  43. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Bullit- Regarding your 8:33 post, true. LOL

  44. Grumpy GuyNo Gravatar says:

    We can’t make assumptions about Mangini’s job performance or lack thereof. He is a consultant, not the one in control.

    The fact is, the world is full of companies that hire consultants, and then don’t listen to anything they don’t want to hear.

    Harbaugh is the one in control, and deserves most of the heat – because he is the one who needs to get it fixed.

  45. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    From Pro Football Talk, here a headline:

    “Despite misses, Lions remain confident in David Akers”

    Imagine that!

  46. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    I hope Baalke isn’t falling victim to leaning on his ‘consultant’ at the cost of the regulars. I have no idea what Mangina is providing, but I’ve seen way too many execs make rash decisions based on minimal input from consultants.

    You read that wrong, Bergs. It said despite the missus, Lions remain confident in David Akers.

    They have a problem with his wife.

  47. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    And, yes, Bergs, we’re going to bring back Mike Hostler. Or is it Jimmy Hat? I’d bring up Mike (he’s GONE!) Trestman, but for some ungodly reason he’s busy coaching the Chicago Bears. Who knew all those years ago that he’d turn his career around? He’s the Warren Moon of head coaches.

  48. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    In more good news, it appears that Ray McDonald and Eric Reid are out for the NO game. VD isn’t clkeared yet as well. Mickey D won’t be missed all that much, as Jerrod-Eddie played well in his stead last week, but Reid will be missed in a big way.

    Buwwitt, by no means is 20 starts considered a seasoned vet for an NFL QB.

  49. Del Mar DennisNo Gravatar says:

    Where did you here Reid was out? Fangio just said within the hour, “chances are good” Eric Reid plays but that it rests on concussion protocol.

  50. Del Mar DennisNo Gravatar says:

    *hear* I should have used all of my 5 secs to proofread my comment. Those same 5 secs that QBs have to throw the ball — in Fantasyland. Although that’s about how long Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride lasts after standing in line for an hour and a half.

  51. robNo Gravatar says:

    what’s going on here DELMARDENNIS ! hey i called you a few times on my new phone but you didn’t answer ! keep an eye out for a 941 area code it’s me .

  52. Del Mar DennisNo Gravatar says:

    OK. But damn. You change phones more than Superman does clothes in a phone booth.

  53. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    ‘Chances are good’ means nothing, Dennis. VDs status depends on the concussion eval as well.

  54. Del Mar DennisNo Gravatar says:

    I don’t exactly care what his chances are, he better play. Or it’s time to go light a candle and pray that Craig Dahl misses the charter to NOR.

    Watching Dahl play safety vs Brees and the Saints?
    The MPAA would rate that at least NC-17.

  55. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    Seems to be the topic of the week. This analysis of Kaepernick is from NFL.com and is backed up with video analysis.

  56. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Witness protection guidelines say ROB has to change his phones every 6 months . . .

  57. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    My takeaway from that article? The last line:

    One thing is clear: Harbaugh and offensive coordinator Greg Roman must get their most explosive weapon back on track.

    These artciles break no ground in what we’ve been discussing, Bullit.

  58. unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Here’s yet another one.


    Same shit, different article.

  59. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    How dare you question Chuck’s take on all things 49er?

    Remember last week when he said categorically that Perrish Cox would be the 49er Punt Returner against Carolina?

    Oops! Never mind!

  60. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Bullit- What I saw from those 3 progressions is a lack of options for the QB. The coaches need to step it up, design better plays and teach better the QB how to use those options. I’m really surprised at what I’m seeing because Harbaugh is a former NFL QB. It goes to show how much he was influenced by Schembechler.

  61. Del Mar DennisNo Gravatar says:

    Delanie already has 2 catches on the Titans opening drive.
    At least V. McDonald can’t drop any passes tonight. But just wait til Sunday…

  62. Unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    It was just a thought, Bullitt. Try it some time.

  63. Unca_chuckNo Gravatar says:

    What’s your point, anyway, Buwwitt? Oh, that’s right. You need to read it first.

  64. Del Mar DennisNo Gravatar says:

    “At least one drop or bobble per game, occurred even more often at the Senior Bowl. Most occur when he has to adjust or move off his stationary spot. Other times when the ball gets there quickly, unexpected targets.”

    Give that scout a cigar.

  65. Del Mar DennisNo Gravatar says:

    Since when did the Jaguars start wearing blue and white unis with a horseshoe emblem? Indy is certainly a horse of a different color from a few weeks ago…

  66. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Sonovagun! Maiooco asked Roman how much of this poor passing offense is his fault. Roman says it all starts with him, as he should. Good job Maiocco!

  67. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Give me five seconds and while I find my point.

  68. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    Oh yeah Cox will be the punt returner for sure per Chuck, just not for the Niners.

  69. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    New post is up.

2021 Schedules
09/12: W 49ers 41, Lions 33
09/19: W 49ers 17, Eagles 11
09/26: L Packers 30, 49ers 28
10/03: L Seahawks 28, 49ers 21
10/10: L Cardinals 17, 49ers 10
10/17 BYE
10/24: L Colts 30, 49ers 18
10/31: W 49ers 33, Bears 22
11/07: L Cardinals 31, 49ers 17
11/15: W 49ers 31, Rams 10L
11/21: W 49ers 30, Jaguars 10
11/28: W 49ers 34, Vikings 26
12/05: L Seahawks 30, 49ers 23 12/12 · 10:00 AMCIN
12/19 · 1:05 PM v ATL
12/23 · 5:20 PM v TEN
01/02 · 1:05 PM v HOU
01/09 · 1:25 PM @ LAR

2021 Draft Class
1. QB Trey Lance, North Dakota State
2. OG Aaron Banks, Notre Dame
3. RB Trey Sermon, Ohio State
3. CB Ambry Thomas, Michigan
5. OG/OT Jaylon Moore, Western Michigan
5. CB Deommodore Lenoir, Oregon
5. S Talanoa Hufanga, USC
6. RB Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana
2021 Prognostications
Bullit: 12-5
Grumpy: 13-4
NJ49er: 11-6
Skeebers: 14-3
Winder: 12-5
Rob: 17-0
Spitblood: 0-17