Any Which Way But Lose

It’s Wednesday, which signals an end to the gloating and basking period and a return to fretting over the next game, which just happens to be the NFC Championship Game. One win away from a trip to Super Bowl number Six!

The long overdue winter rains should be arriving today and lasting through the weekend. That means we’ll be seeing some old fashioned football this Sunday. Guys with muddy jerseys and steam coming off their heads. Quarterback slides that go ten yards along the grass like a slip n slide. Divots all over the field. Long, mean cleats. NFL Films Classic, John Madden football.

Speaking of Madden, how did Troy Aikman get to be the lead color commentator for NFC games? Aikman has as much color as a silhouette. There’s any number of guys more qualified for the job than him. Aikman should be a Buckingham Palace guard or one of those security cops who pace around outside of banks.

The Giants have already won next Sunday’s game, according to them. They won the regular season game against the 49ers, also. Well, they controlled it anyway. Right up until the final score was posted. As soon as Giants coach Tom Coughlin finishes whining about the refs in last Sunday’s Green Bay game, he will explain in detail how his team will control the upcoming game with his scary and dangerous team.

The 49ers, of course, are neither scary nor dangerous. They just like to outscore other teams. One way or another.

The team goes back to work today and the key bit of news on everyone’s mind is the fate of TE Delanie Walker. Specifically his broken jaw. He said last Sunday he was ready to play and we’ll find out today whether that is true or not. A guy playing with a broken jaw on a muddy field in the rain with blood leaking out of his face is almost a lock to be the hero of the game. There’s nothing scarier than lining up across from a guy bleeding to death who doesn’t give a shit. If he was hung over and missing some teeth, too, it would be even better.

The 49er WRs killed at least three drives in the Saints game by dropping third down passes. And a few others, too. An improved showing this coming week would be most appreciated. It’s hard to believe Vernon Davis can duplicate his gargantuan game against New Orleans.

Tim Tebow bowed out of the tournament last weeked — rather ingloriously, if I may be frank. That leaves only one fairy tale story in the 2011 season that has not yet reached its conclusion: Alex Smith. Is next Sunday’s game the last chapter? Or will there be one more after that?

The last second Alex to VD pass last Saturday has been compared to The Catch (Joe Montana to Dwight Clark) and The Catch II (Steve Young to Terrell Owens). Catch number one was followed by success, but Catch number two lasted only a week. The 49ers lost in Atlanta the following Sunday. The epic 49er vs Giants playoff game of 2002 has also come into play this week, which featured an incredible 49er victory after trailing by 24 points in the second half. That victory too was short lived, as the 49ers subsequently were squashed by the Tampa Bay Bucs.

Needless to say, we will be channeling Catch Number One this week. And not wincing over the ensuing results of the other two parallel moments of history. Let’s hope this Sunday will provide us with a whole new incomparable event. Or just a win. A win would suffice just fine. Even an ugly one. Lucky would be okay, too. Beautiful, ugly, weird, unfair, ridiculous, disgusting — it doesn’t matter. Us over them is all we need.

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67 comments on “Any Which Way But Lose
  1. TonyNo Gravatar says:

    It’s truly amazing to think the Niners are ONE win away from the Super Bowl…and it’s against a team they already beat once during the season…the Giants have improved since week 10 …but so have the Niners….its gonna be a hell of a game…

  2. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    We are definitely living a dream scenario especially after our two major foes, the two roadblocks to the Super Bowl have fallen and we get a home game against a team we have already beaten.
    If you were to write a script the only better opponent in the playoffs would’ve been Atlanta.
    If you would’ve said that we were going to the Super Bowl in August
    you might have been commended for your bravado but ridiculed for your fanaticism.
    When presented an opportunity you make the most of it. Kick the Gnat’s asses and let the dream live on. Go Niners!

  3. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    In 2009 the Rams drafted Jason Smith as the second pick in the draft to be their LT. Things haven’t panned out and they are asking him to take a major paycut or be cut per PFT.
    I equate this to Robert Gallery and the Raiduhs or our own Kwame Harris. Even Offensive Lineman don’t always translate into sure things but as the second pick you can’t afford to whiff.
    Interesting that the 2009 draft might turn out to be one of the worst in recent memory.
    Stafford was picked first and is solid. Nest you have Jason Smith,
    Tyson Jackson, Aaron Curry, Mark Sanchez,Andre Smith,Darius Heyward Bey,Eugene Monroe, BJ Raji, Crabtree, Aaron Maybin
    and Knowshon Moreno.
    Best guy is Stafford with Andre Smith, Monroe, Rahi and Crabtree being respectable. The rest have yet to justify their draft status.

  4. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Go 49ers! I want one of the Who’s got it better than us towels.

  5. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    bullit- Tyson Jackson hasn’t been great, but he has been decent.

  6. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Tyson Jackson is OK but when you’re expecting Suh and you get Anthony Adams it’s a little disappointing.
    I often group Tyson Jackson with Glenn Dorsey. Back to back top 5 picks from LSU. Neither is Neil Smith.

  7. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    I thought Jackson at #3 was a major reach. I saw him as a late 1st round pick. He’s playing and starting. But as you say, he isn’t playing like a top 5 pick. But I will also say, anytime you can get a starter in the draft in any round it is OK.

  8. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    This game will be played in the rain. Get your long cleats on, boys. Who’s the better mudder – Alex or Eli? I look for Kendal Hunter to have a big day if it rains and the field gets sloppy. Could be Hunter verse Bradshaw. Gore always seems to fall on wet turf. Akers verse… Tynes? Shit, I don’t even know the Giant kicker. Kickers…. sheez…
    `Your mudders a mudder `

  9. barleyfreakNo Gravatar says:

    I actually think Aikman is a good commentator. But then again, I really don’t want color. I want insight and sound understanding of what is happening. I don’t want random unrelated comments or any sense that the announcers are not paying attention to what is happening ON THE FIELD. Pay attention. Give an opinion. Don’t try to be funny. Call me staid. Heck I even think Dierdorf is good though most people can’t stand him.

  10. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    Anthony Davis on twitter – “Are the Giants doing drunk interviews? Lol.” That kid’s funny.

  11. barleyfreakNo Gravatar says:

    I’m also glad to have everyone jumping on the NYG-will-win train. Let em talk. We’re going to beat em. Our team has more toughness and mental fortitude. Can’t be beat? Will be beat.
    They will not be able to run on us. We will get better pressure on Manning than the last game. We need to open up the run game. Crabtree needs to step up. Get some plays to Williams, Miller.
    It’s gonna be a bit sloppy, but our team is tough, tougher, toughest. 27-17, Niners.

  12. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    With all the truly deserved “equity” Alex Smith has built up over the last three days, it can all go away in an instant….. “Everything That Rises Must Converge” – Flannery O’Connor.

  13. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    Eli Manning has a stomach flu.

  14. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    A while ago the NFC West had Jim Mora Jr, Mike Singletary, Scott Linehan and Ken Whizzerhurtz coaching in the division. Now it’s got Jeff Fisher, Jim Harbaugh, Pete Carroll and Ken Whizzerhurtz. The NFC West is about to become very, very competitive.

  15. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Did he puke on your back, Spitty?
    What pissed me off about the last telecast is on a couple of the fumbles, the camera crew is busy showing coaches, the sidelines, the crowd, and everyone BUT the goddamn players who are trying to recover the fumble or the refs who are making the call. Twice, the announcers didn’t know the outcome until after the crowd roared the ref’s signal of Niner ball. Then they say, oh yeah. Niner ball. I yelling at the TV, show the furking refs! I’m sure there were millions of people doing the same damn thing.

  16. winderNo Gravatar says:

    Al – As it stands our division did pretty good tis season, but adding Fisher will surely make it much better. It will be nice to be taken seriously once again. The upcoming game just might be one of the best in 49er history. We are going to play a very tough team in the Giants and to be honest I am a little worried about it. However, I think we rise to the occasion and take em.

  17. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    What’s started to happen is when there’s a loose ball some guys dive in there 5 to 10 seconds after it happens. Then you have those guys who come to the pile and start peeling opposing players off it like an artichoke.
    Those guys should get personal fouls.
    It’s stupid for more than 2 officials to go into the pile to look. At least 2 of the zebras should be keeping the players not involved away. This isn’t rugby and the end result is a big scrum.

  18. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    Winder – The part about this Niner matchup with the Giants that I like is our run game verse theirs. Our run game is so much more developed and sophisticated. The Giants’ run game is very basic. If the field gets sloppy, the ball is wet, it rains during the game… The 49ers will win. If it’s dry, and the field is in relatively good shape, it’s anyone’s game.

  19. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Bullit, certainly I understand what the deal is when a fumble occurs. This has been going on for, oh, the past 80 seasons.
    My problem is the camera crew showing everything but the relevant action. I want to see the ref make the possession signal, not the coach reacting to something I can’t see.

  20. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    Looks like Delanie is practicing today. Good sign.

  21. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    If we go to the Super Bowl and play Josh McDaniels and Bill Belichick, I hope Harbaugh takes some shots at Belichick and McDaniels in some of his press conferences for their past pre Super Bowl and pre London game shananaghans. Remember, Harbaugh closed the preseason down early to the press. He’s aware of how teams can scout through various outlets.
    I’m fairly certain both McDaniels and Belichick wouldn’t go there, but Harbaugh loves to go on the offensive in his press conferences. If he takes a shot, it will cause some controversy, and Belichick is too old of a duck to let it disrupt his game. But I’d like to see Harbaugh take the shot anyway… a well placed jab that lands nicely would make for a better post Super Bowl handshake. Maybe after a win, maybe Harbaugh will slap him on the back and give him a new version of Mike Singletary – “Obviously you didn’t get the tape.” The Pats love to play games in press conferences. One of the best examples is Wes Welker talking about putting his foot in his mouth after the Patriot beat the New York Jets and it came out Rex Ryan had a foot fetish. That press conference is priceless.
    The only scenario not talked much about is a Giants / Ravens Super Bowl. I love me some Eli, but even I think that would be a boring Super Bowl. For the national media and the NFL, the 49ers back in the Super Bowl under a rookie head coach would be pure freakin’ gold. The Ravens, however, are more boring than four paragraphs written by Unca Chuck. Chuck should have a link to free cyanide tablets on his blog.

  22. robNo Gravatar says:

    ok GUYS

    here it is

    first off


    ” PRESEASON PICKS … Rob: 8-8, 10-6, 7-9 ”

    like i said before , i meant to say 9-7 instead of 7-9 there , but i had a mis-type ! if you will notice 9-7 falls right between 8-8 and 10-6 !

    the point is , i always said we had close to 10-6 talent this year ! since aldon smith has proven to be the real deal as a passrusher i’m now going to make my official 2012 preseason prediction …

    10-6 !

  23. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    PFW, PFWA declare Aldon Smith the NFL’s Defensive Rookie of the Year! Way to go, Aldon! Way to go, Baalke! Looks like Baalke’s move from Perfect Strangers has benefited the 49ers greatly.

  24. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    rob- If you can, I can. I change my prediction to 13-3!

  25. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    On Sunday Alex Smith must look to run if the opening is there. That should loosen up the defense and possibly force the Gnats to spy Smith.
    Crabtree had an awful game on Sat and he’ll bounce back this weeknd have a big game.

  26. NJ49erNo Gravatar says:

    Bullit I fully expect Alex to have some wheels in this contest.
    Especially since NY typically only brings 4. A few designed rollouts and a good screen game would work well in sloppy conditions.
    For the record I predicted 6-10.
    Very happy to be proven wrong.

  27. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    Harbaugh referred to The Stick as
    a Fortress defended by Niner fans.
    Call it Fort Knocks.

    Niners will defend Bill Walsh Field and vanquish the Gnats

  28. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    My strategy for beating the Giants will definitely work. Score more points than them!

  29. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    The East West Shrine Game has turned into a second tier game.
    No big names and thr top prospects are projected no higher than 3rd round. Top names are:

    1. Arkansas WR Jarius Wright
    2. Michigan State WR B.J. Cunningham
    3. Oregon OLB Josh Kaddu
    4. Coastal Carolina CB Josh Norman
    5. USC DT DaJohn Harris
    6. Pittsburgh OLB Brandon Lindsey
    7. Wisconsin S Aaron Henry
    8. Mississippi State C Quinton Saulsberry
    9. UT-Chattanooga QB B.J. Coleman
    10. Tennessee Tech WR Tim Benford

    This game is similar to the defunct Kelly Blue Gray Game that was played on Cheistmas Day in Mobile. AL. Talent from schools not participating in bowl games.
    Next week is the Senior Bowl with much better prospects

  30. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Wes Bunting seems to think Jarius Wright is a guy that will be good in the NFL. He’s talking him up a lot.

  31. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    This is really good from PFT. It is observations from our first game vs the Giants:

  32. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Yeah, Wright’s pretty good. Fast as hell. He’s apparently run a 4.28 40. Had a great senior year. 12 TDs and 1117 yards. Small as hell (5’10” 180 lb. In the DSJ mold.
    Could go as a low 3rd-high 4th pick.

  33. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    Yeah… ’cause Unca knows CB talent. Prince was AWESOME THIS YEAR for the Giants… and clearly worth a top ten pick like Unca wanted…. right Unca? Or did you “adjust” that prediction as well.
    This was my highlight from yesterday that needs to be repeated – ” The Ravens, however, are more boring than four paragraphs written by Unca Chuck. Chuck should have a link to free cyanide tablets on his blog.”

    Just good stuff there, Albert. Good stuff.

  34. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    David Whitehurst, Gardkowski and Mark Sanchez???? I’d shut my mouth if I were you as you touted these guys as superior QBs.

    The one that did pan out will make you eat crow for a that you constantly put down will make you eat crow for a long time. . Alex Smith in your face hater troll.

  35. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    I’m fairly certain I never touted David Whitehurst or Gardkowski….

  36. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    Looks like Bullit started his mad drinking early this week. It’s a smart move, though. He wants a clear head by Sunday evening.

  37. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Moron hater troll read it and weep Jan 12 9:52pm

    “Finally, that leads us to my boy, Charlie Whitehurtz. I still believe in him, and yeah, I thought at first (at the beginning of the strike shorten year) that Seattle would win the division, but after the SeaChickens brought in Jackson, Gallery, Rice, etc. I pulled my prediction down and went with the Rams and Niners competing to the end because I didn’t like the acquisitions Carroll had made and thought it would affect his team’s chemistry. I still like Whitehurst and contend the reason the SeaChickens went with T Jax is because their line was young and they needed an athletic qb – and because their OC came over from the Vikes during a strike shortened year. Just because a guy like Carroll doesn’t use Whitehurst right doesn’t mean he’s a bust.”

    Like I said everyday, all day beat the crap out of you, Pinata boy.

  38. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    11:50 – High after living the life only The Bad Lieutenant (Cage or Keitel?) could dream of, Bullit posted about David Whitehurt, who rumor has it was David Hasselhoff’s stand-in on Night Rider. Word on the street, however, has him being the brother to Charlie Whitehurst, but that can’t be because Jesus was an only child. So Pinata boy would like to know who David Whitehurst is?

  39. bullitNo Gravatar says:

    Moron Pinata Boy
    Charlie instead of his dad David
    doesn’t change what you posted

    Jan 08

    “But you’re right, my qb list does evolve. Know why? ‘Cause qbs evolve. Like Sanchez. Forever a stinker now because he got too GQ, dating Hollywood actresses, at an important time in his maturation process – not focusing on his craft. Matt Ryan is done. Still love me some Charlie Whitehurst even though his stock is lower than Enron’s. Who else? Still believe in Bruce Gradkowski.”

    No denying what you said.

  40. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    I’m not denying the qbs I believe in. I was just wondering who David Whitehurst is. So he’s Charlie’s dad? Good to know….

  41. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    I was off Amuckamura and on to Prince Peterson before the draft, skippy. So, you can ‘evolve’ (more like moronic design) but you give others shit for changing their minds? You are a dumbfurk beyond belief, dude.
    How’s your blog, BTW?

  42. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    Prince Peterson? Jesus Christ. David Whitehurst? Seriously? You guys are starting your week a little early, ain’t you?
    Blogs are great, but you know where the action is? Facebook. 730 plus members strong, constant action and debate with different people all the time on this one dude’s site. His name starts with an S. I can’t remember his name – but I assure you, he’s a geneous. Talk about the insights. The Niners are in the NFC Championship game, Chuck, and nobody’s on the blogs. You guys will be doin’ the facebook thing, too. As for your blog, you should seriously consider talking with the makers of cyanide. One look at your blog and they’ll see the humanitarian need for a link to free cyanide.

  43. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    This one captures fan reactions to last Saturday pretty awesomely:

  44. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Go, Spit go. Go to facebook. Go to Myspace. Go to furking Google+. How can we miss you if you won;t go away?
    Nobody’s on YOUR blog. How does it feel to be the abandoned playground of the internet? Haw haw.

  45. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    Dumb Chucks:
    Facebook can delete comments quicker and block users faster. Something you’ve had issues with. Lol. In addition, it’s much easier to share articles and videos and find new members. The facebook page is the blog, not wordpress or blogspot. You just publish your ideas from there to your page because that’s where people comment – it’s easier for everyone. And what you don’t understand, Chuck, and never will is that efficiency brings change and you gotta get out ahead of that curve.
    I just ran the numbers – On my facebook page, on January 18th, I have 36 comments (not including my own) from 17 different users, and that doesn’t include “likes.” On your blog, you had 30 comments (not including your own) from 8 different users who are a lot like the scene in the movie Rounders where everyone travels to Atlantic City just to play the same five guys… over and over. So you basically have 8 different users who frequented your site right before the NFC Championship game. Bravo! How’s all that hard work paying off for you? Lol.

  46. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    I’ve asked you numerous times.
    I am waiting for you to answer to your “GUARANTEE” that the Niners would lose to the Aints last week.
    You keep ducking the question.
    Again I don’t give a rat’s behind
    about your Facebook page. It’s not relevant here yet you’re bragging on something that we can’t confirm. U R Acting like a hating moron fool who happens to be a troll.

  47. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Fine. Then split, Spit. No one wants you here. Don’t you get it? If you left, we’d all be a little happier.

  48. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Skeebers- My wife and I both would have gone nuts over that video butr we were too busy crying. I can’t believe how good the music fits the moment. Whoever put that together really did a nice job!

  49. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    The Niners are in the NFC Championship game after a historic regular season with so many great stories to tell, and Chuck’s blog? Crickets…. Facebook is absolutely blowing up with fan support, great videos and cool debate. Chuck’s blog? Crickets. Curp. Curp. People are going to facebook for their debate and 49er information, not the blogs. Facebook is the blogs.

  50. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    chirp, chirp*

  51. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    I just watched the Go Nuts video again. Cried again.

  52. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    I need to watch the video again!

  53. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    I got a bit misty eyed myself, Berg. But it was great to watch all those fans going bonkers. It made my own over-the-top wig out in my living room seem pretty much the norm. And it really brought home just how colossal a moment in time Smith and VD delivered to Niner fans everywhere.

  54. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    I’m going to go watch it again myself – for the 4th time. Skeebette’s watching it on her computer, too. Two sets of head phones.

  55. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    Reno is on fire again. This time it is about a mile from my house with 80 mph wind gusts. Luckily for me the wind is not blowing towards my direction. Unfortunaly, a lot of houses have burned.

  56. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Still awaiting an explanation on
    the “GUARANTEE”
    Funny that you post this “The Niners are in the NFC Championship game after a historic regular season with so many great stories to tell”
    The reason it is funny is what a big fat HYPOCRITE you’ve been.
    Fighting the Niner success all season long into and including last week’s game. Now you want to blend in??? What else can one expect from a parasaite?? Pinata Boy, 24/7. Are you just gonna stand there and bleed?

  57. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Is it snowing or raining yet?
    What causes these fires? Power lines? Lightning? The big storm is coming to the Bay Area tomorrow evening. Anyway be safe.

  58. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    bullit- High winds and power lines are the cause of the last two fires. 10,000 have been evacuated. It is snowing on MT Rose, but when the wind is this big many storms go up into the atmosphere and blow right over us, only to form again 50 to 100 miles away. We are projecting a big storm tomorrow.
    Winds have calmed down to 44 mph gusts.

  59. bullitNo Gravatar says:


    Last week I said if the Niners forced 3 turnovers and 5 punts they would win. I called it my magic number of 8.
    You mocked me and said thatn the Dolphins would beat the Saints if they forced 3 turnovers.
    Looks like you’re the fool once more Pinata Boy. 24/7

  60. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Then why are you even bothering with your blog, Shit?

  61. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    You’ve gotten, what? 18 posts in 2 years?
    I’d be bailing too.

  62. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Yeah, and you’ve got no facebook friends? Boo hoo.

  63. unca chuckNo Gravatar says:

    Berg, the rain should get there pretty soon.

  64. AlbertEinstinkleNo Gravatar says:

    Unca – You’re dumber than a white wine vendor at a Nascar race. You’re dumber than an anadromous fishing guide in Nebraska. I didn’t know they taught monkeys to type. Honestly, how are you this stupid? We need you to volunteer to pull yourself out of the gene pool for the good of humanity. And “skippy,” isn’t insulting or annoying. It’s fruity. You’re a dumb fruit, like an eggplant. UncaEggPlant

  65. phil fanNo Gravatar says:

    Hey Berger, hope yer house and all are okay. Rains help you folks out?
    Be well…

  66. BergerNo Gravatar says:

    So far, the count is 20 houses. I feel bad for those that lost their house but lucky the wind was blowing in a different direction than normal. Usually it blows my way. The wind has died and it seems the fire is under control.

  67. SkeebersNo Gravatar says:

    New post is up.

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    […]49ers Outsider » Blog Archive » Any Which Way But Lose[…]…

2021 Schedule
09/12 - 10:00 AM @ DET
09/19 · 10:00 AM @ PHI
09/26 · 5:20 PM v GB
10/03 · 1:05 PM v SEA
10/10 · 1:25 PM @ AZ
10/17 BYE
10/24 · 5:20 PM v IND
10/31 · 10:00 AM @ CHI
11/07 · 1:25 PM v AZ
11/15 · 5:15 PM v LAR
11/21 · 10:00 AM @ JAX
11/28 · 1:25 PM v MIN
12/05 · 5:20 PM @ SEA
12/12 · 10:00 AM @ CIN
12/19 · 1:05 PM v ATL
12/23 · 5:20 PM v TEN
01/02 · 1:05 PM v HOU
01/09 · 1:25 PM @ LAR

2021 Draft Class
1. QB Trey Lance, North Dakota State
2. OG Aaron Banks, Notre Dame
3. RB Trey Sermon, Ohio State
3. CB Ambry Thomas, Michigan
5. OG/OT Jaylon Moore, Western Michigan
5. CB Deommodore Lenoir, Oregon
5. S Talanoa Hufanga, USC
6. RB Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana
2020 Prognostications (Mulligan Version)
Bullit: 6-10
NJ49er: 6-10

Skeebers: 7-9
Winder: 4-12

Grumpy: DNP